Antisemitism and the Alt-Right: Vox Day Debates Louise Mensch, Part 2

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By Louise Mensch | 2:11 pm, May 29, 2016

More: Anti-Semitism Debate Part One

More: Vox vs Louise – Should Women Vote?

More: Vox vs Louise – What is Conservatism? Always/Never Trump Face Off

Louise Mensch: You obviously do care because you’re employing tactics against this, you’ve just described.
Vox Day: No, we don’t care what they do or what they think, but we are certainly engaged in a cultural rhetorical war against them, but we don’t care what they think about us. We’re their enemy, they’re our enemy, and that’s fine.
Louise Mensch: But you’re not employing this against the enemy. I never see these memes employed against the left, ever. I only see them employed against people on the right. John Podhoretz, Ben Shapiro, Cathy Young, people who are 100% on the right. You don’t seem to bother with anyone of the left. Not that … By the way, God forbid that should be taken as an encouragement to go off to burn Hillary supporters with this stuff, but it’s red on red fire.
Vox Day: I’m pretty sure they get sent to anyone who attacks them.
Louise Mensch: You’ve put Ann Coulter in a difficult position, because she has said, not convincingly at all, that she isn’t anti-Semitic. And you’ve just described how …
Vox Day: I don’t believe she is anti-Semitic.
Louise Mensch: Right …
Vox Day: She’s not anti-Semitic.
Louise Mensch: but then a whole bunch of anti-Semites are running to her defense by tweeting Holocaust cartoons at Jews?
Vox Day: That’s what you’re not understanding is that the fact that one is not anti-Semitic does not mean that you have any obligation whatsoever to disavow anyone.
Louise Mensch: Ann Coulter though, is being defended by a bunch of anti-Semites who as their weapon use anti-Semitism. In order to try and prove she’s not anti-Semitic, that’s not very helpful, is it?
Vox Day: Well, but again I don’t think that that’s the objective or the concern.
Louise Mensch: Do you guys even have an objective?
Vox Day: Absolutely.
Louise Mensch: What is it?
Vox Day: The chief objective for … I probably … I don’t speak for the entire alt-right because the alt-right doesn’t have leaders, but I am alt-right, and my objective is the preservation of Western civilization.
Louise Mensch: How?
Vox Day: That is my … How?
Louise Mensch: How do you think you’re going to preserve Western civilization by tweeting out memes of African Americans getting hung?
Vox Day: Because right now we are subject to the largest invasion in human history, since post-1965.
Louise Mensch: What’s that got to do with African Americans getting hung?
Vox Day: (Laughs) We’d have to trace back through all the rhetoric, but what that has to do with it is the myth of America as a proposition nation, and the myth of a melting pot, is absolutely false. America is now a multi-ethnic empire, which is headed for the fate of all multi-ethnic empires, and the only way that Western civilization is going to survive, is if it gives up the multiculturalism, globalism and anti-nationalism that has been dominant for the past … fifty, sixty years.
Louise Mensch: Well, since the founding of the United States shall we say? You were founded with help from the French. You yourself are Native American. You were multicultural as soon as the first pilgrims landed from Plymouth. You’ve never been uni-cultural except when your people held the land and there was nobody else here. After that time you guys were messed up, you know? As soon as the English came along, on the Mayflower, you were multicultural.
Vox Day: No but with the exception of admitting the existence of people who were already there, the Naturalization Act of 1790 made it very clear that the only people who could become American citizens were white people of good character. Now America was specifically a white country. That’s what it was.
Louise Mensch: So then you’re not an American.
Vox Day: What’s that?
Louise Mensch: You’re not white.
Vox Day: No, but, if it weren’t for the exception that was made for slaves and Native Americans, you’d be correct.
Louise Mensch: You’re saying that it’s so … Let’s get into it. First of all, I don’t know why you would privilege one Act over a later Act that reforms it, but, you’re saying that you can be white, Native American, or black.
Vox Day: I believe that was the intention. Certainly the language was very clear. You could only become American if you were white.
Louise Mensch: But that Act has been superseded, has it not?
Vox Day: Oh yeah, eventually, I think it was finally completely overturned … I don’t know exactly when it was overturned but certainly by 1965.
Louise Mensch: Why is a law that’s been overturned of any particular interest?
Vox Day: I’m sorry what?
Louise Mensch: Why is a law that has long since been overturned of any particular interest or relevance?
Vox Day: Because it indicates to us what the choice of the historical foundation was, and it proves the lie of America as a proposition nation, and it proves the lie of the melting pot, which is completely absurd. The melting pot was from a poem written by somebody who was … I believe it was a Russian Jew who lived in Britain, so it had nothing to do with America whatsoever, so …
Louise Mensch: What of it?
Vox Day: … the fact that we have historical facts demonstrating that America was, at one point in time, founded and intended to be a predominantly white nation. With this idea of the proposition nation and this idea of the melting pot – both of which are fictional
Louise Mensch: But they’re not fictional. Give me your tired, your poor, you huddled masses, they’re just literally not fictional. Americans themselves brought in African Americans, as slaves, and later fought a war to emancipate them.
Vox Day: [crosstalk 00:50:36]
Louise Mensch: Native Americans, who are not “white” by your light, existed on your continent before the white settlers came. And then there were plenty of immigrants, coming from the South, coming from the North, coming from everywhere. So there have always been. After all, take Louisiana, you have the Creole, you have people who’s second language for a long long time was French. There’s been a melting pot literally forever, and indeed your country is named after a bloody Spaniard, so what’s your problem?
Vox Day: The problem is that the small minorities and exceptions are very very different than turning the entire system into a giant tribal power, a tribal political spoils game. And that is the problem that the United States is facing, that is the problem that some countries in Europe are going to be facing in the next fifty years or so. I think that what has happened is arguably going to be as historically traumatic as some of the awful examples that we were talking about before.
Louise Mensch: Do you regard …[crosstalk 00:51:54]
Vox Day: And to me that’s the lesson …
Louise Mensch: Sorry, can I just talk for a second? Do you regard ethnic Jews –
Vox Day: Of course.
Louise Mensch: You said to Cathy that if she were an American, of course she’s as American as you are, and as American as I hope to become next year, is she … Do you regard the Jewish people as somehow not white? I am married to a Jew-
Vox Day: [crosstalk 00:52:16]
Louise Mensch: -and honestly, if you had to pick the two of us out of a lineup, I may be a little paler than most because I’m a fair-skinned Anglo-Saxon Englishwoman of undiluted ancestry, but in general, there is no way  that you could tell the difference. The skin is white, the skin is pale. What are these imaginary racial differences that you see?
Vox Day: But they’re not imaginary. First of all, there’s two different primary types of differences that matter. Number one is obviously the DNA differences. However in the case of Jews that doesn’t even apply, because frankly, most of different Jews are not really even that … If I recall correctly, the latest DNA evidence indicates that they’re about 80% Italian. Second, that’s just the Ashkenazi Jews. Obviously the Mizrahi and the Sephardi are considerably more Near Eastern in descent. I think that the entire context of the … I think that genetic science is going to completely revolutionize the way that the Jewish people are regarded, including by themselves. It’s possible that they’re considerably more white than I am. 
Louise Mensch: Going by your bell curve …
Vox Day: What’s that?
Louise Mensch: Going by your bell curve, that you believe in, that we talked about last time, as you said, Jewish intelligence is in a high median, I’m quoting you now, above white intelligence. According to you therefore-
Vox Day: But wait a minute, let me back up though. That’s Ashkenazi Jewish intelligence. I went and did a little bit more homework and I ran the numbers and actually overall Jewish intelligence is not that spectacular. If you put all the … If you put the three populations together, Sephardic, Mizrahi and Ashkenazi, their average IQ is only 105.
Louise Mensch: Where’s your source data from?
Vox Day: What’s that?
Louise Mensch: You said you ran the numbers, where did you run them from?
Vox Day: I got the three main population numbers from Wikipedia, and the intelligence numbers were from … I don’t remember the source, exactly, but I think it also … It was … If you Google the information, it all comes out pretty much the same. The Ashkenazi at 115, the Sephardi at 94, and the Mizrahi at 91. So if you simply factor in …
Louise Mensch: I won’t give the impression that I subscribe to any of these theories, but start with this, the Ashkenazi Jews as the benchmark. By your guess 115, that’s higher than the white population …
Vox Day: Absolutely.
Louise Mensch: By your bell curve rule, they should be in positions of power and dominance over whites, according to your theories of race intelligence.
Vox Day: No.
Louise Mensch: Because they are more intelligent than whites …
Vox Day: [crosstalk 00:55:47]
Louise Mensch: And therefore, you should be trying to attract them to the country.
Vox Day: But you’re forgetting something.
Louise Mensch: What’s that?
Vox Day: There’s not very many of them. And so despite the fact that they’ve got …
Louise Mensch: So we should advertise in Israel for more.
Vox Day: What’s that?
Louise Mensch: I said, we should try and get some more then, by your light. We should try and attract as many as we can.
Vox Day: First of all, there’s two things. Number one: The fact that they’re such a small percentage of the US population means that there are considerably more very highly intelligent European whites than there are Ashkenazi Jews. That’s just the math. Secondly, with the new DNA evidence that is coming out, it is actually looking … The Ashkenazi Jewish intelligence advantage is actually the result of their admixture with European populations under the selection process that some of the Jewish intelligence theorists have.
Louise Mensch: Whatever the result of it, whatever the cause of it – the putative cause of it, I don’t want to be seen to be agreeing – whatever the putative cause of it, that’s where we are, that’s where we are on the stats, so by your light, we should be trying to attract as many Ashkenazi Jews as we possibly can to come in and save a country of more stupid white people.
Vox Day: No, because first of all there aren’t anymore, and secondly … Let’s get back to anti-Semitism here, because here’s where it starts to get very interesting. I would argue – keeping in mind that I’m coming at this from an abstract point of view, not a personal one – I would argue that the biggest single danger to the Jewish population in America, is actually insufficient anti-Semitism.
Louise Mensch: Oh, that’s a new one. Go on.
Vox Day: Because, it you look at the numbers and you look a the population, the fastest way to eliminate the Jewish population in America is intermarriage. You talk about, for example, Ivanka Trump and Trump’s Jewish granddaughter …
Louise Mensch: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vox Day: But the reality is that despite the conversion and all that sort of thing, his granddaughter’s only, at most, could only be 50% Jewish.
Louise Mensch: His granddaughter’s 100% Jewish because her mother has converted. The Jews are both, uniquely, in the United Nations, both a racial and a religious group. Her mother has converted to Judaism, therefore by the Orthodox Jewish light, the children are all Jews. They’re children born to a Jewish mother, all of them. They’re 100% Jewish. The Jewish people has not been diluted, but strengthened by Ivanka Trump’s conversion to Judaism. Now, I-
Vox Day: And that’s very true, when it comes to, obviously Jewish law, but it has nothing to do with science, it has nothing to do with genetics. For example, my Native American-ness is diluted. I’m not as Native American as my mother.
Louise Mensch: Everything is diluted. That’s the whole point I don’t get about the alt-right. Apart from outliers like me – and I am an outlier – but apart from outliers like me, almost everybody’s ancestry is mixed race, don’t you guys get that? There’s nobody pure …
Vox Day: [crosstalk 00:59:37]
Louise Mensch: … hardly anybody has a pure anything, anymore. Everybody has mixed-race ancestry and … I just find it so childish. Apart from the hatred, it’s just so childish.
Vox Day: Well I do think it’s pointless to hate people for it, but the fact of the matter is that genes are genes and if you’re looking at the … I don’t know, maybe … [crosstalk 01:00:05]
Louise Mensch: The President’s mother was a white woman.
Vox Day: Maybe Jews don’t care if their genetics go extinct as long as their religion and culture survive. That’s a legitimate point of view. I don’t know what their perspective is on that. I simply think that it’s very interesting that a lot of the debates and argument on hatred between Europeans and Jews almost appears to be …
Louise Mensch: You make a false distinction.
Vox Day: completely groundless if it does turn out in fact that Ashkenazi Jews are more Italian than anything else.
Louise Mensch: You make a completely false distinction. There is no distinction between Europeans and Jews. The house of Rothschild – and I thank them for it – financed Britain’s wars against Napoleon, for example, in the eighteenth century. There were Jews in Britain as early as the 1100s. They’re mentioned in the Canterbury Tales, they’ve always been a part of European life. There is no contradiction between being European and being Jewish or being American and being Jewish. Absolutely no contradiction.
Vox Day: There goes their claim to Israel then.
Louise Mensch: No. It doesn’t.
Vox Day: Well if they’re European, then they have no more claim on Israel than the British did.
Louise Mensch: Well, we had the same claim that the Americans have over America. Right of conquest. The Palestinians or whoever drove the Israelis from their ancestral home and they were replaced in their ancestral home. I think that you must be careful by the way, I don’t really want to get into a discussion about Israel because I think it is noxious to bring in discussions about Israel and Israel’s position in the world into discussions about anti-Semitism, and it’s straight up anti-Semitism that the alt-right has failed itself completely as a force by dragging out these kinds of cartoons that make them, as Jane Austen would say, “the contempt of the world.” 
Vox Day: What I would encourage you to consider is that rather than look at the alt-right as an outburst that needs to be dealt with in itself, I would encourage you to look at it as something more akin to the canary in the coal mine, because I think that we are at a very important nexus. I think that it is potentially an existential nexus for Western civilization and I think that the context, the conventional context that you are viewing this from, may be outdated and irrelevant.
Louise Mensch: Well, you know, they say, “Cry some more,” and I say to them, “I’ll say cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.” Because the only thing I’m interested in is hunting them all down like dogs …
Vox Day: That’s one of the things I like about you.