Evan McMullin, the independent Presidential candidate, stopped by Heat Street’s offices to be interviewed by me for Facebook live. Here’s the transcript, and of course you can watch the video to get the full force of McMullin’s views.
He explains his 50-state ballot strategy, from signature-gathering and lawsuits to minor party nominations where they already have ballot lines; his views on pro-life justices; why he thinks he’s a better fit than Gary Johnson in Utah; and the failures of both candidates to deal with Russia and Vladimir Putin. The ex-CIA field operative and House Republican fixer says he’s the ‘only conservative in this race’. “Hillary Clinton is such a weak candidate,” he says, “and Donald Trump’s losing to her.”
Transcript:
Louise Mensch: We’re live and I’m incredibly excited to be interviewing Evan McMullin, the independent conservative candidate for President, who has kindly given us some time here in the middle of an incredibly hectic media schedule.
Evan McMullin: Well, happy to be here. Thank you very much.
LM: Thank you so much Mr. McMullin. Now, yesterday you had a rather triumphant day because you got on the ballot in Utah.
Evan McMullin: That’s right.
LM: Your home state, which is incredibly important. I know a lot of people are going to be asking if you or your campaign had conversations with Governor Romney and are you seeking his endorsement?
Evan McMullin: Well, my team and his team have been in touch. That’s true. I haven’t spoken with the Governor yet, but I think things are where they should be. We’re building a grass roots campaign. Our first goal is to connect with the American people and let them know what we’re doing and we’re still doing that. We’re only a week into this and the response has been amazing. In just seven days, less than seven days, we had about 90,000 people volunteer on our website or donate. It’s incredible and the engagement is just incredible and it grows every day.
LM: It’s a genuine grass roots campaign, I suppose is what you are saying.
Evan McMullin: Yes, absolutely it is. The response has just been phenomenal and that’s really important because we’re getting on ballots across America in different ways. One of the ways is through petitioning. Another way is through third parties, but having this grass roots support really helps us on both fronts.
LM: You needed 1,000 signatures to get on the Utah ballot and you have approximately double that.
Evan McMullin: Yeah, more than double.
LM: I’ve seen a vine of your campaign about Iowa. Is that deadline this Friday?
Evan McMullin: It’s approaching soon, I believe it’s Friday, but we have that well underway. We’re confident we’ll be there, too.
LM: You have a volunteer team. I see people spontaneously volunteering to fight for you in Florida and Iowa. Now let’s talk about California because I think it’s important to correct a misapprehension. People have said that you’ve missed the ballot deadline in California, and therefore your only routine is through lawsuits, but isn’t it the case that you’re also seeking the nominations of small independent parties who are on the ballots in some cases, like, for example Minnesota?
Evan McMullin: That’s right. The Independence Party of Minnesota has nominated me and they are working with us to get on the ballot in Minnesota. It’s a very important state for us.
LM: That was the party that nominated successfully Jesse Ventura for Governor if I recall correctly.
Evan McMullin: Minnesota has a history of electing independents so we like that state for that reason They have an independent streak that fits well with our plan and with our message and with our positioning on issues so we’re very excited about that. Yes, we’re working with parties across America as we go the more traction we get the more people who learn about what we’re doing the more parties are reaching out to us saying, “Hey, we have a ballot line, we’d like to use it to help you.”
LM: Right. Exactly, so maybe California and some of these other states, the deadline … it isn’t as simple as just that. If you work with a partner, you could be able to get on a lot of these.
Evan McMullin: That’s right, and we also are preparing legal challenges and that’s another way we can get on the states … and we want to be on all fifty states. I want to make that clear. That’s the goal. We also have pretty specific ideas about how we can prevail in this election and we’re allocating resources accordingly but if it’s possible to be on every state, to give every American what we believe is a better choice than the two mainstream or main party candidates, then that’s what we want to do.
LM: Let’s talk a little bit about that. It seems to me that the one thing missing from this election is moral consistency. Completely evaporated in this election. We see from Hillary Clinton some very disappointing policies, more of the same, third term of Obama, while she has disclosed her taxes, are you prepared to disclose your tax returns?
Evan McMullin: I will be disclosing my taxes.
LM: There are questions about her health. We think people should be open with the public. As a former CIA agent, which I know you can’t tell me about, or you’d have to kill me, it can’t be very encouraging to see that this front-runner kept her emails on a private server and allowed them to be hacked by the Russians. It’s not good for the country.
Evan McMullin: No, it’s not good for the country, and it’s not good for multiple reasons. The first one is one that you mentioned and it has been covered by the press which is that she put very highly confidential information at risk and it was compromised. That’s the first thing. But the thing I find most alarming is that she set up that private email server to avoid accountability to the American people and this is at a time when 82% of Americans don’t feel the country is on the right track. Americans feel like they’re not being heard, like the government’s unaccountable to them so it’s inconceivable to me that now we would elect a President who doesn’t believe she’s accountable to the people. That’s exactly the opposite of what we need right now.
LM: And at the same time, a lot of the people who would regard themselves as patriots and support Donald Trump to hear that Carter Page, his advisor, was in Moscow giving a speech where he attacked America and attacked NATO and blamed America for Russia’s invasion of the Crimea. I mean, this is not, to my mind, Reagan was very strong and firm with Russia and what we see with Trump is the people in his campaign and the candidate himself cozying himself up to Vladimir Putin. Anything any more un-American than that I can hardly imagine.
Evan McMullin: You said it better than I could have. That is exactly right. It is absolutely unAmerican, and as a former Central Intelligence Agency officer, I see what’s happening there and I just think, how have we gotten to the point where we’re considering electing a President of the United States who is being played and manipulated by a KGB officer, or a former KGB officer?
LM: Exactly, a fromer KGB officer, and Haven’t we had enough of that with Barack Obama?
Evan McMullin: Right. Absolutely. Not being strong enough with the Russians and Putin. This is the thing. Donald Trump, he fancies himself one of the world’s best negotiators and that might allow him to do some branding deals on some hotels where he sells them the rights to put his name “Trump” although I wonder, Trump has been exposed as a bigoted brand, and I wonder the value of that brand after this election now that it’s been exposed for what it really is in that regard. Okay, he may be able to negotiate those but that does not mean that he is sophisticated enough to go head to head with a former KGB officer. In fact, I think Donald Trump is particularly unsophisticated on the international stage and especially when dealing with a KGB officer like Vladimir Putin. He’s just totally unprepared to deal with that challenge.
LM: And of course, I remember that Governor Romney was widely mocked for saying that Putin was a threat and we all remember that Romney was right. How right has he been proven? It was Hillary Clinton who held that big red reset button on America’s relationship with Russia. For Americans that are tired of being pushed around by Vladimir Putin, you do represent an alternative.
Evan McMullin: I think I do represent a realistic view of who Vladimir Putin is and what he presents as the leader of Russia, the challenge to democracy and liberty across the country, across the world. Instability, even. His goal is to destabilize Europe and he’s had some successes there. Obviously, in Ukraine, he’s used force even to do it and his goal is to do the same thing in the United States, and Donald Trump is helping him do that and that is one thing that any patriotic American needs to step forward, no matter if you’re a Republican or a Democrat, a conservative or a liberal. Collectively, we need to step forward and say, we’re not going to allow this here in our country.
LM: Now let’s talk about a couple of your positions. You are for border security. One of the positions of Donald Trump’s that I have actually agreed with is that we need to secure the border. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s the tone in which he puts it that’s the problem. I’m a legal agreement as are two of Mr. Trump’s wives and his mother.
Evan McMullin: I couldn’t agree more. We need to secure our border. Our border with Mexico specifically. That’s just a basic part of national security for us. The question is, how do we do that. Donald Trump says we’re going to build a wall across the whole thing and Mexico is going to pay for it. Yes, we need a wall, in other places we need a double wall, we need other things. Whatever it is, let’s do those things and secure the border. Let’s then enforce the laws. and we need that so that we can thrive and feel safe. So lets’ enforce our laws, but the idea that we are going to take the people that are already here to the tune of eleven million people and round them all up and deport them is ridiculous. It would cause so much damage to our economy and to families. The reality is we just cannot do that. Otherwise, legally, if they’re law-abiding people, we need to put them on a path to legal residency if that’s what they wish, and maybe in some cases citizenship.
LM: Yeah, I think there’s a distinction in my view between residency and citizenship. That might be a compromise. Immigrants like myself who came in through legal process and were penalized versus people that did not. When Mr. Trump has talked about this ever, he seems in fact to be for touch-back amnesty which would in fact put illegal immigrants ahead of legal immigrants in the queue so he doesn’t seem very strong there either. Let me ask you this: Would you appoint Ted Cruz to the Supreme Court?
Evan McMullin: Well, I’m not making any commitments about who I would or would not appoint to the Supreme Court but I will tell you that I will appoint originalists and the question then follows: What do I think about Roe v. Wade? I will appoint pro-life justices.
LM: Now this is one reason why you may, in fact … people know about you that you’re a former CIA agent. What most people don’t know is that you worked for House Republicans. You know the ins and outs of the House. You have a genuine chance to win the state of Utah and thereby receive some electoral votes which means that in a situation that is no longer that theoretical where neither candidate gets 270 electoral votes and it goes to the presently constituted
House and the House is looking for a compromise, there is a possible path for you to be elected president, especially if you do well in the popular vote.
Evan McMullin: We agree.
LM: But you need to get the actual electoral votes and the Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson, previously has been doing well in Utah because I think it’s fair to say voters in that state do not like Trump and do not like Hillary. They will not like his pro-choice views either. It’s a very pro-life state.
Evan McMullin: That’s right. And his views on religious liberty. Gary Johnson doesn’t understand religious liberty. He’s proven that. He’s said some really shocking things recently about Mormons specifically.
LM: Such as?
Evan McMullin: Some comments about Mormons shooting people. It was a strange comment.
LM: Really?
Evan McMullin: Yeah, you’ll have to look it up.
LM: I was in Utah this spring and it seemed quite peaceful and calm to me.
Evan McMullin: It was a strange comment. I’m not sure what he was thinking or what the thought process was there. In any case, I think Gary Johnson … look, in many ways, I believe in Libertarian ideas in the sense that individuals need to be more empowered in our country. Power needs to be shifted back closer to the people. Those are consistent with Libertarian ideas but part of that is religious liberty. Our country was founded in part on that and we can’t have a president who doesn’t understand that, especially in this time when we really need to, I think, ensure that religious liberties are protected.
LM: Yeah, absolutely. Is that one reason that you take the view, and of course you have worked with this on the ground, that persecution, apart from being plainly unconstitutional and therefore unpatriotic, persecution of … we see a lot of anti-semitism online, we see a lot of persecution of Muslims online, and America is a melting pot. It was founded as a melting pot. As a member of a religious minority yourself, do you think that is important?
Evan McMullin: I absolutely do. This is such a driving principle for me. We’re a nation of 330 million people, and geographically, we’re also very large. A lot of people have different ideas, they’ve come from different countries, either in themselves or in past generations. We’re a diverse, pluralistic country and with that, we must have tolerance as a result of that. E pluribus unum. This was our original, unofficial motto until I think the ’50s that conveyed the ideas that there are many of us with many differences among us but we are together still in one as a country. We need to go back to that and realize that we are not going to agree on everything, all of us on the right and left and center, but we need to respect everybody’s ability to live the way they want to live and to be one united in that defense of those freedoms.
LM: And that applies across the board, whatever your belief or lack of belief. Let’s just talk a few basic questions. This is the weirdest election that many people can remember in their lifetimes.
Evan McMullin: I think it is.
LM: You mentioned the possible damage to Donald Trump’s net worth after this disaster of an election. He’s been described as erratic. Hillary Clinton has been described as having health problems. I think most people think it’s entirely possible that one or both of them will drop out and then the race will be fundamentally transformed. If that happens, would you be ready to serve? If Mr. Trump said, “You know what? I don’t want to lose massively in front of the whole world,” which polls indicate he will do, would you be willing to step up if the GOP decides to remove him?
Evan McMullin: I am. I am ready. I am the only conservative in this race. I want to make that very, very clear. Donald Trump is not a conservative. He’s pretended to be at times and not at other times. I have been a conservative my entire life. I believe firmly that I am the only one who can carry that mantel. I am committed to uniting this country. I believe on these principles that we’ve just discussed that the country can be united again.
We’ve been too divided for too long and both of these candidates, Clinton and Trump in their own individual ways, are further dividing us. We need a new generation of leadership. I have so much conviction around that.
LM: Last question. For those people who say, you’re just a spoiler and you’re just out to get Hillary Clinton elected, my view is that, right now, I regard the White House as lost. If you look to the nominal Republicans, if you look at the polling, that’s what the polling says. My worry has moved on as a conservative myself, to hope that the House seats and the Senate can be retained by the Republicans. Do you believe that your candidacy is going to bring more of those Cruz conservatives, those Rubio conservatives, those Kasich conservatives, tose mainstream conservatives out to vote for the down-ticket candidates because it’s really not all about the White House. If you look at the RCP average, Donald Trump does not stand a chance right now.
Evan McMullin: Absolutely. Donald Trump is imploding. He is a weak person and he makes for a weak candidate. Hillary Clinton is a weak candidate herself but Donald Trump is losing terribly to her and shows no signs of correcting what he would need to correct in order to get his campaign on track.
LM: So getting those other candidates elected has to be important for the conservatives …
Evan McMullin: That’s right. It’s very important. A lot of Americans, millions of them, are saying, “You know what? I’m going to sit this election out” a lot of conservatives because they simply can’t get behind Trump, which has major implications for our ability, as you point out, to hold onto the House and especially the Senate. It’s critically important. That is a positive element of what we’re doing. We’re giving the American people something to vote for instead of something to vote against.
LM: Trump’s strongest point is that he is not Hillary. Hillary’s strongest point is that she’s not Trump. But that is a really, low, weak, low-energy basis on which to run a campaign and it’s nice for conservatives to have something to vote for and I’m so glad you’re running, and thank you for your service.
Evan McMullin: Thank you very much. That’s kind of you. Pleasure.
