On Sunday in Pasadena, California, CNN political commentator Sally Kohn and Daily Wire editor-in-chief Ben Shapiro squared off in a debate at the two day Politicon convention, which bills itself as a gathering dedicated to political debate and comedy. The liberal Kohn and the conservative Shapiro agreed on one thing: their dislike of Donald Trump. Everything else was a matter of dispute.
For one, immigration. “It does matter where [immigrants] come from, in terms of the values that these people hold,” Shapiro, an outspoken NeverTrump conservative said. “In the presence of a welfare state, which has existed since ‘65, you have to pick and choose which immigrants you bring in. You do, I mean otherwise, everyone just comes in. If you agree, what is your standard for bringing immigrants in? Because clearly it’s not not taking federal or state benefits. Should we just bring six billion people in here? Where do you draw the line?”
Shapiro said the line should be drawn by allowing only immigrants who believe in individual liberty, private property, the Constitution, and limited government. Kohn’s retort: “Who the f–k have you ever met in this entire green beautiful world who does not believe in individual liberty?”
On the topic of gay rights, Shapiro drew heavy applause standing by his assertion that an Evangelical shouldn’t have to make an LGBTQ person a wedding cake — “that’s called freedom,” he said.
Trump, though, is where the debaters found common ground.
“Donald Trump’s biggest argument is that we get to prosperity through bigotry, that’s what he’s selling,” Kohn said. “Donald Trump is saying, ‘No, everything you’ve been taught and believe about this country is wrong, and the way to get a better country is by discriminating against people and pushing people out of this country, prosperity through bigotry.’”
Shapiro, though he similarly condemned Trump’s race-baiting, presented a strategic argument against Trump — one which has accrued for Shapiro droves of alt-right, anti-Semitic Twitter trolls, often boasting #MakeAmericaGreatAgain under tweets of images of ovens or Adolf Hitler.
“The reason why I don’t personally support Trump is because I think that there’s a 100 percent chance [of] the conservative movement breaking itself on the rocky shoals of Trumpism,” he said. “He has more positions than the Kama Sutra.”
“What I see is a lot of people who, in an effort to enthuse themselves about the election, have started to talk away all the terrible things that Trump does, says, and stands for and pretend he’s an acceptable candidate because they need to feel good about voting for Donald Trump,” Shapiro said.
Perhaps most interesting, though, were their diagnoses of the Trump phenomenon.
“I would say Trump is a Frankenstein’s monster created by the Republican Party,” Kohn explained. “The Republican Party has, for the last several years — leading figures demonized Muslims, not just extremist Muslims, but all Muslims.”
Shapiro had another theory: “He’s a reaction to the Obama era,” Shapiro said. The forces that led to Trump, according to Shapiro, include a neglectful Republican Party establishment, speech policing in the name of political correctness, and a general sentiment that President Obama does not truly believe in American exceptionalism.
“I don’t think he knows what made America great in the first place, which is why I object to him,” Shapiro said of Trump. “But the people who are embracing him are doing so because they’re thinking, ‘At least that guy is willing to stand in front of the American flag’.” Shapiro said. “At least that guy is willing to say ‘Make America Great Again,’ while Obama is focused on moving forward and Hillary is only concerned about herself.”